Re: <nettime> don't prune us (Jos? Mar?a Mateos)

let me keep lurking too!

Renée Reizman

http://www.reneereizman.com

On Sat, Jul 15, 2023 at 2:53 AM <nettime-tmp-request@mail.ljudmila.org> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: don't prune us (Jos? Mar?a Mateos)
2. Re: Nettime veterans patiently reading (Rosemary Bodolay)
3. Lurking but avid reader (Timothy Druckrey)
4. Pruning and gardening (paul van der walt)
5. Re: Summary of today's meeting (Geoffrey Goodell)

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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2023 17:04:12 -0400
From: Jos? Mar?a Mateos <chema@rinzewind.org>
To: nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org
Subject: Re: <nettime> don't prune us
Message-ID: <ZLG4TMVrqEgIwFqA@rinzewind.org" target="_blank">ZLG4TMVrqEgIwFqA@rinzewind.org>
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On Fri, Jul 14, 2023 at 09:16:22PM +0200, christine treguier via Nettime-tmp wrote:
>Whatabout us letting you know we will stick to your boots and you just
>have to collect all senders' mails.

I'm also in favour of this, but at the same time I want to communicate
that with an e-mail so I'm added to the list of recent posters.

Cheers!

--
Jos? Mar?a (Chema) Mateos || https://rinzewind.org

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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2023 16:17:54 -0500
From: Rosemary Bodolay <rosemary@artindustry.org>
To: nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org
Subject: Re: <nettime> Nettime veterans patiently reading
Message-ID: <625098F1-3CF0-4E80-8ED1-9CD379EBE93D@artindustry.org" target="_blank">625098F1-3CF0-4E80-8ED1-9CD379EBE93D@artindustry.org>
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I want to stay on list, too!

~ Rosemary
rosemary@artindustry.org

> On Jul 14, 2023, at 3:27 PM, Andrew Libby via Nettime-tmp <nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org> wrote:
>
> ?I also want to stay on the list. Mods, please don't take me off.
>
> Andrew
>
>
>> I'm a lurker on the list, perhaps inclined to be more active as global
>> cultural politics grows more heated and weird. I'm making sure here to
>> register my activity so that I won't be excluded. I currently have
>> presence on Twitter, Bluesky, Mastodon, Micro.blog and a few other less
>> likely candidates, visiting all and looking for the right neighborhood to
>> settle into. But there's always email...
>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 14, 2023 at 3:44?AM Bruce Sterling via Nettime-tmp <
>>> nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> It's rare for me to harangue the nettimers, but I'm very pro-nettime, so
>>> I'm going to seize this opportunity to send mail to "ljudmila.org," if
>>> only to show that I don't want to be pruned from the list.
>>>
>>> I'm up in the Balkan mountains this season, where I discovered that a
>>> shortwave radio that must be 40 years old still functions. This
>>> discovery
>>> gave me a lot of the same moral comfort that I derive from nettime.
>>> Short-wave radio, it's not for everybody, but some people have 'em.
>>>
>>> After all, what else is there: Twitter? Sort of. Maybe. For a while.
>>>
>>> "All my followers are accumulated social capital that seem to have been
>>> rendered near worthless by algorithmic deflation," the author laments:
>>>
>>> https://www.eugenewei.com/blog/2023/7/6/how-to-blow-up-a-timeline
>>>
>>> Bruce Sterling
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11 Jul 2023, at 5:29 PM, John Preston via Nettime-tmp <
>>> nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org> wrote:
>>>

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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2023 17:43:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Timothy Druckrey <druckrey@rcn.com>
To: nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org
Subject: <nettime> Lurking but avid reader
Message-ID: <1961736706.9826775.1689370990566.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com" target="_blank">1961736706.9826775.1689370990566.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Opting-in to the new iteration of nettime....it's a legacy worth sustaining...
Tim
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:33:45 +1000
From: paul van der walt <paul@denknerd.org>
To: Nettime-tmp <nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org>
Subject: <nettime> Pruning and gardening
Message-ID: <m2pm4uq73h.fsf@denknerd.org" target="_blank">m2pm4uq73h.fsf@denknerd.org>
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Hey all,

I wanted to reassure folks - tl;dr: if you're receiving this
email, you'll receive "new nettime" emails! :)

We (and please correct me if i'm misrepresenting things, other
mods) have no intention of dropping folks off the list. I'd like
to clarify what the intended course of action is:

* add all current subscribers of nettime-tmp to nettime-l when
it's ready,

* send out an announcement with the new list details,

* try to find folks we might've missed, and subscribe them, too
<-- this one deserves some explanation.

>From what i understand Felix explained, the reason we don't have a
"canonical, full" list of nettime subscribers, is because due to
spam and delivery issues over the course of time, Mailman will
have auto-unsubscribed people in some circumstances. These
recipients will necessarily have been missed when instantiating
nettime-tmp, and we want to at least make an effort to try and
figure out who might've been unsubscribed in this fashion. I'm
hoping there might be logs, if not, i'm thinking that scouring the
archives of the past year or two might be another source of email
addresses. The risk there of course is that we might pick up
addresses of folks who have purposely unsubscribed, and might
perceive it as "spammy" if we resubscribed them. But such is
life, and i guess it's the best we can do in the circumstances.

But rest assured, there are no plans to "prune" folks for
inactivity. Lurking is acceptable and welcome - i know i did it
for a while! :)

And as an aside, i did want to say that it's heart-warming to see
folks coming out of the woodwork expressing enthusiasm to continue
receiving nettime-l, even if not everybody has time or inclination
to contribute. I also perceive a shift in that it seems lately
we're allowing a lot of space for the "human" side of nettime --
expressing that we value it, that we value the connections made
through it, etc. I think that's great. At one point someone (was
it Felix or Menno?) said that nettime had a bit of a forbidding
"academic" aura, which i can understand. My personal feeling is
that being more free in our "meta-conversation" for want of a
better term, actually goes a fair way to reestablishing the
humanity of this community's participants.

Thanks everyone, keep well,

p.

PS: I'm based in Naarm Melbourne, Australia and am always happy
for a coffee catchup!

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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 10:52:14 +0100
From: Geoffrey Goodell <goodell@oxonia.net>
To: John Preston <nettime@jpreston.xyz>
Cc: Nettime-tmp <nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Summary of today's meeting
Message-ID: <20230715095214.j5n4ibavoioweei5@oxonia.net" target="_blank">20230715095214.j5n4ibavoioweei5@oxonia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Dear John, new mods, and all --

Congratulations on reaching consensus on a plan to migrate to a new list and
manage the list going forward. This is a great social achievement as well as a
great technical achievement.

The plans for social activities beyond the list itself are exciting. I wonder
whether it is possible to demonstrate that such activities are in fact an
instrumental and critical to the success of a community in general, and whether
the success of an online forum depends upon the success of a community that
operates and enables it. Nettime is certainly different from the online fora
operated by social media platforms, but what makes it different? Is it because
the group that operates the infrastructure is not for profit? Is it because
the participants in the forum have a say in how it operates? Is it because its
leaders aspire to build something special and believe in what they are
believing?

Looking forward to insightful discussion for many years to come.

Best wishes --

Geoff

On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 at 05:29:48PM +0200, John Preston via Nettime-tmp wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Here is a longform summary of the synchronous meeting held today.
>
> There is general agreement to move to servus.at as the new host for the??
> mailing list. They have about 2000 email accounts and a few hundred mailing
> lists so there are no concerns about management or scale.
>
> We talked about problems with bots, and they are currently working on a??
> solution.
>
> After the move, the intention for signup process seems to be to keep it the??
> same as it is now: users have to confirm their email via a link, and then be??
> manually approved by a moderator. We think this is currently scalable, effective
> for managing spam, and gives mod team a feel for "who's coming and going", which
> is nice to know.
>
> We expect the move to take a couple of weeks, and there was some discussion??
> about when is a good time to do this, given it's summer now. Eventually the??
> archive and website will move as well, but probably that will happen after the??
> new list is established.
>
> An initial pool of new moderators is now being formed and I think people will??
> meet again soon to organise this. I think Jordan, Christian, and Menno expressed
> interest in joining the new mod squad.
>
> We also talked about pruning the subscriber list and figuring out how best to
> coordinate the move. This is an open question for the mod team to figure out??
> what to do, but there were suggestions of using the invitation function on the??
> new list to send out invites to everyone with activity in the last year, as a??
> way to make sure the most active members are able to migrate effectively, and??
> find a balance with just resubscribing lots of people who maybe don't want to??
> be on the list.
>
> There was brief discussion about using the nettime.org domain name for the??
> mailing list, and this is still an open question. Ted would like to maintain??
> ownership for now and act as a guarantor, since it also points to other services
> like our website and the Mastodon instance [1]. Overall there did not seem to??
> be much concern either way in terms of the mailing list, as we expect host??
> moves to be few and far between.
>
> We also talked about the role of moderation on the list, and making sure this is
> also about creating energy in the list, and bringing new people into the space.
> Ted pointed out that diversity is an issue for nettime, as the homogeneity has??
> both allowed the list to last for a long time, but also caused it to "ossify".??
>
> Vesna had some good suggestions for organising small meetups and remote hubs,??
> and we talked about arranging meetings at in person events like Ars Electronica
> and Transmediale. Also we said these should be publicised so we are making??
> nettime an open space that new people can get involved in, regardless of if they
> like mailing lists or want to be part of the list.
>
> I also raised the idea of doing more events on-list and off-list, such as a??
> 'show and tell' thread where people can just talk about what they're working on??
> at the moment, or having coffee calls where people can have a chat and get to??
> know other people in the community. Someone also mentioned the idea of inviting??
> people not on the list to write guest posts, which I like because it grows the
> community and allows us to explore the use of a mailing list as a publication??
> platform as well as just a space for connecting and discussing.
>
> Probably there is a bunch of stuff I missed because I got distracted halfway??
> through, and then had to leave early, but I hope this is a useful summary for??
> the list! ???
>
> [1] I actually missed that we have a Mastodon instance! It's at??
> <https://tldr.nettime.org/> if anyone is interested ????
>
> Thanks,
> John (they/them)
>

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# distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
# <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
# collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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End of Nettime-tmp Digest, Vol 3, Issue 10
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